Community Profile: Rose

Community Profile

Rose @lilithmachine, Fansubber, Blogger, Anime Fan

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Hello, Arcadia Dragnet readers and everyone else! My name's Lys, and I'm so excited to share this article with you. I plan for this to be the first in a series of interviews focused on members of the English-speaking fansubbing community and English fandoms surrounding older anime. These interviews are intended to be positive-slanted, focused more on presenting viewpoints and less on challenging them.

My interview with Rose was conducted over Discord messages over a 5 1/2-hour period on May 20, 2020. The transcript shown below was lightly edited by me to remove some of the extraneous chatting we did, Rose has reviewed and okayed it without requesting any changes.

My questions will be presented in italics, Rose's responses are in plain text. I've also featured a bit of Rose's art in this article because I think it's cool.

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Lys: Just at the outset, I'd like to ask you to share your pronouns, whatever name or names you prefer to be called online, and any biographical information you are comfortable sharing.

Rose: I'm Rose, 27, and I usually go by she/her! I'm Canadian and I've lived here for pretty much my entire life. I usually go by Rose as a first name, but I took on "Bunny Bolan" for translating specifically.
I forget how that happened exactly...I think I was just trying out pseudonyms, and a lot of people liked how that sounded, and kept calling me that.

Your Twitter bio mentions that you are Métis... now as far as public education taught me, the Métis people are an ethnic group in the Canadian prairies descended from a mix of European settlers and First Nations people. Is this a good description of your group? I'd also love to ask how your Jewishness factors into this.

Yeah! I'm Métis on my father's side, and we're part Iroquois and part a blend of Scottish and Turkish. The history of the part of my ancestors who came to Canada is pretty muddled, but my father's tried to give me all the records he can.
The Turkish side of this ancestry was also Jewish, but at some point around the turn of the 20th century, they stopped practicing. I guess I converted in my late teens both to honour them, and to find a religion I was comfortable with.
The other side of my family, my mother's side, is Roman Catholic. I know that creed works for some people, but after going to a Catholic school as a kid, it was such a drag that I wanted out.

Thank you for these background details, they'll become more important later when we discuss your art but this is primarily an anime-related interview so I'd better ask the basic question: How long have you been an anime fan? How did you first get interested in this art?

I've been a fan for about 23 years now! It really started when I would watch Samurai Pizza Cats every Saturday on Fox Kids, and Keroppi and the Hello Kitty anime on YTV.
And I have only the faintest memories of this, so I can't quite cite it as my first experience, but I know I used to watch the Canadian dub of Astro Boy (1980 version) on a Global TV station called STV. This had to be around 1995, its final broadcast year.

23 years of anime fandom, wow, what is it about anime that's kept your interest for so long?

I think the animation techniques and art styles captivated me at a very early age, and I just kept looking for more. There's not a lot of very good cartoons out in Canada, while Japan has consistently been putting out animation of every genre. There's so much to explore.

It's the variety, then, that you enjoy?

Yes, particularly the artistic experimentation, and the wider array of genres. For example, one of my favourite anime is Saga of Tanya the Evil. In anime terms, you can say it's an "military isekai", but outside of this, you have to explain "reincarnation but with a fantasy world but with psychic powers but with WWI artillery", which is probably a headache to anyone not familiar with anime.

a piece of Rose's fanart, this one's for Bloom County

So I've seen you mention Lupin in your writing, you just brought up Saga of Tanya the Evil... what other anime would you say are your favourites / are important to you?

There's a lot of titles I enjoy, but my all time favourites are Key the Metal Idol, Tetsujin 28 (2004), and Cowboy Bebop.
Other ones that are important to me include Giant Robo (the OVA) and Astro Boy (1980). When I was a teenager, I was especially big on the Evangelion TV series and Project A-Ko, too.

Lots of robots and machines!

Yeah! I'm starting to notice how I seem to have a fondness for a "regular life with robots" trope.


In what ways (if any) would you say anime has impacted you as an artist? What are your other major sources of inspiration?

There's very small influences all over my art style...I know the way I do eyes is inspired by Osamu Tezuka and Mitsuteru Yokoyama's art, the way I draw bangs/cowlicks comes from Naoko Takeuchi, and Giant Robo influenced how I draw full body shots. It's probably from all the fan art I would draw as a kid.
Osamu Tezuka is one of my biggest inspirations overall. He had a lot of fantastic ideas, albeit he needed to take better care of his own health. I still think Tezuka could have, and should have, seen the new millennium.
It's funny how much of my family knows who Tezuka is. Even my parents are familiar with Astro Boy...they used to work at a TV station that ran the Canadian AB dub I mentioned earlier. My mother is even specifically the "former employee" mentioned on the Lost Media Wiki page about that dub.


What about your writing? Your blog often addresses Japanese media, but I'm also wondering if the Japanese stories you've experienced have affected the kinds of stories you tell and the way you tell them.

Anime and manga have certainly influenced how I do drama and emotion. Big facial expressions, dynamic poses, dramatic choreographed fight scenes, etc.
Western comic fight scenes are usually very to-the-point - there won't be any buildup or panels in-between physical impact. Japanese fight scenes will take up to an entire page/several seconds to show someone building up for a single punch.

from Rose's webcomic Westbury Detectives

For the sake of the readers, I think I'd better point out that you are a writer, blogger, artist, cartoonist, fanartist, translator, fansubber, and media collector. You have been writing webcomics for 14 years, and you are part of 2 fansub groups. I'm sure your reasons for engaging in these activities are as varied as the activities themselves, but in general, what drives you to invest so much time in them?

With my personal comics, I make them because there's stories in my head that I want to tell. Things will come to me that I want to at least try to render in art. I want to be able to entertain other people like how my favourite writers/creators/artists have entertained me.
With fansubs, I really enjoy making anime and manga accessible to more people. I'll find a strange, rare anime that few other people have heard of, and I'm driven to help other people discover it for themselves. I've been studying Japanese since I was 15, but putting it towards something as hands-on as fansubbing is fantastically helpful practice.
The fact that the fansub community is so detail-oriented and perfectionist is also surprisingly helpful. You learn to go through your own work with a fine-toothed comb, over and over, but it helps me ensure a viewer will get the most accurate, most fitting translation.

It seems like you get a lot of motivation to express and improve out of being part of a community. Would you say the online communities you are part of have shaped you as an anime fan and an artist to some degree?

Oh, yeah! Especially when you're in a smaller community, where you want to be good example. I've found myself doing a ton of research and creating content when I'm in these communities. It makes them more inviting to outsiders and potential new fellow fans.

So you feel motivated to improve and contribute to the communities you are a part of?

Yeah, exactly!

You seem like a very responsibility-driven person, in your writing and your art I noticed a tendency to reflect on the bigger impacts that a person's individual actions can have. In that context, I'd like to revisit what you said earlier about wanting to be a good example- what, in as much detail as you can manage, does being a good example in a community mean to you?

It means being responsible with the power you might have, and keeping the people around you safe. I've been in fan communities where there's been natural leader types, who wind up manipulating more vulnerable and younger people, in one manner or another. I don't want to ever have that kind of lasting negative effect on someone.
I'm especially sensitive to the kids in a fandom. It's okay to have fandom-related adult talk, but it needs to be away from where minors could get to it.
I won't say too much about this, but as a teenager, I sometimes had discussions with older users who did not have a filter. You feel like one of the cool kids at the time, but years later it's like, "Oh wow, I should not have been discussing that with an adult when I was that age."

I've had a lot of conversations with yaoi fans who often deal with attacks from people who believe that the art they like is immoral. Often, these people will attack yaoi fan communities for being "toxic for children" when these communities advertise themselves as 18+ and actively block members who declare that they are minors. This still leaves the issue of members pretending they are adults when in fact they are too young, and considering this is an issue that bad-faith actors like to elevate, what are your thoughts on the situation?

It's pretty complicated, especially when speaking as an outsider to that community. Kids are prone to hijinks like that, which isn't necessarily the community's fault if they don't know what's going on - but if people are using "but they said they were 18" as an excuse to let minors in, then that's pretty abhorrent.
It's really not just the yaoi fan groups that are "toxic for children". I have my own grievances with yaoi, mainly in how some users are straight women objectifying gay men, but I could name quite a few communities I'm more worried about minors getting into.


So you describe yourself as a "gonzo writer". From my understanding, the gonzo style is all about exploring the subjective perspective of the author. Why do you apply the gonzo term to yourself, and how has it informed your work?

I've been a big fan of Hunter S. Thompson since late 2018, with Thompson being the originator of the term. I started reading his work during a particular rough patch of my life, and it really reinvigorated my love of writing non-fiction. I picked up the gonzo approach because it involves putting yourself into an experience and writing everything around you. You're not a bystander, you're right in the action and getting the true experience of whatever you're reporting on.
I think my first real gonzo experience was with the "Saki Sanobashi" deep dive. At the time, we didn't know if it was a real anime at all, but I didn't want to just sit by and be a spectator. I got to join the researchers and be a part of the action.

I've seen other people use gonzo in a more hedonistic self-focused way, but you seem to use it in reference more to the context and community that you are part of.

True gonzo is directly tied to the journalism format. I know some people interpret it as trying to instead live like Thompson - who even I would affectionately call a "nutcase" - but that feels like they're trying to justify doing a ton of drugs and stunts.

another piece of Rose's fanart, this one's from Chikkun Takkun

Let's talk more about your experience searching for Saki Sonobashi. Was this your first time searching for lost media? What draws you to lost media in general?

It definitely wasn't my first lost media experience. My first would probably be the Canadian Astro Boy dub, of which I've had a hand in recovering 6 episodes. I started on that back in 2008 when I was going through a nostalgic phase, but I soon realized there wasn't any trace of it online.
Lost media is like one long scavenger hunt. It's fun a lot of the time, but equally frustrating. I like recovering lost things I remember, if not to see them again, then to prove I know it was real.

What other lost media did you search for between 2008 and 2018?

I had a hand in recovering a Canadian cartoon called King, and recovering some unreleased songs (i.e. Prince's vault songs, and the soundtrack for an ALF movie)

Was it through searching for lost media that you first encountered lolicon art?

No, I was definitely exposed to it when I was a young anime fan. It's pretty easy to accidentally see lolicon fan art of the young anime characters you're looking up.
As well, when you go back through vintage anime and manga, there's a whole lot of evident lolicon art and/or inspiration. After running into that more than a few times, I started to wonder what was up with that being so concentrated in the early 80s. My research into the Mitty and Milly colouring books was the catalyst for my full investigation piece.

Have you always had an antagonistic attitude toward the lolicon phenomenon? I am curious because you mentioned being a fan of Project A-Ko in your teens.

Yeah, I really liked the original OVA and the third one, Cinderella Rhapsody. As much nostalgic attachment as I have towards it, I really can't deny that Project A-Ko wasn't made specifically for my target audience (15-17 year olds) at the time. I didn't quite pick up on the lolicon inspiration back then, especially since I was barely aware of it being from the same crew as Cream Lemon.
We (young western anime fans) didn't really call it "lolicon" and "shotacon" back then, but I remember being repulsed whenever kid characters were drawn sexually. It was particularly alarming at that age to know there was a subsection of adults who could potentially see me like that.

It definitely is apparent that lolicon art repulses, distresses, and otherwise brings out negative reactions in you. Why, then, do you keep exposing yourself to it? You translate lolicon hentai with Incense Idol Subs, Chikkun Takkun definitely draws on lolicon tropes, you take deep dives into finding super-rare lolicon media... What is it about lolicon that makes it valuable for you to engage with, despite the emotional pain it causes you?

It really all started when I wanted to know what the hell was going on. Lolicon seemed like weird permeating fog over the industry, and after getting more episodes of Chikkun Takkun - which I had no idea was going to get at grimy as it does at times - I went ahead with the deep dive.
I unfortunately had to skim some of the LA episodes to get an idea of how to write about it, but my partner at Incense Idol, Dave, helped me climb through those. Afterwards we started to feel really bad for Miu. Here was this girl who was created just to sell video tapes and be titillating for weird old men, until she was discarded entirely. I know this sounds weird, but I decided to translate her LA episodes because if anyone was going to sub her into English, I wanted it to be me. It was mostly done out of pity for the character.
Lolicon anime has a strangely close connection to the core anime industry. In example, Hideaki Anno got his start drawing Shadow Clarisse art for Gainax promo art and doing in-betweener animation on Cream Lemon. It's a very disgusting tangled ball of yarn that nobody seems to want to talk about.
In short, it's one part pity for the girls created just for disposable male gaze. In another part, it's shining a light on just how many people in the industry might've had their hands on shady media - but ironically, I know I've now put my hands on it, too.
I feel a lot of empathy for Ami from Cream Lemon too. During the months when I was researching, I happened to buy a huge lot of vintage figures (mostly to get at some cool Sailor Moon chibi figures) and surprise, there were a few of the Yodel Cream Lemon figures. I've kept the two Amis because I really don't want them in the hands of anyone who'd use them for something obscene.
Barefoot After School is definitely the weirdest of the three lolicon anime I've translated. I found it by accident and was struck by how it's very obviously animated by some Studio Pierrot crew, along with an entire insert song from Miina Tominaga. I'd love to know more about how All Products formed and functioned.

So mainly I was prompted to ask for this interview because of the response on Twitter to your article "The Castle of Doom and the Lolicon Boom". Many responders have taken umbrage with your portrayal of lolicon, some have gone so far as to claim that you are part of a movement that is attempting to censor artistic portrayals of child characters in sexual situations. In your article, you said, "To be candid, I as the author of this essay find lolicon disturbing and abhorrent. I hate child exploitation in general, which I hope isn’t a controversial opinion."
To clarify your stance on the issue, do you believe lolicon media is tantamount to child abuse? And further, do you think lolicon media should be illegal?

That's a complicated subject. Lolicon media is certainly child exploitation, but technically, it's not simply the drawing that's the problem. For example, a slightly-risque drawing of Miu is questionable, but not verboten. It can still pass as normal art. But if someone finds it titillating, that's where there's a problem.
 would personally prefer if there were some sort of guidelines advising how not to draw a minor, but that would be hard to enforce.
On the other hand, any graphic content of Miu (which I obviously won't find a picture of) is where a problem arises. It's child pornography.
To trace back to your original question, I know for sure that I wish cartoon sexual scenarios involving children were counted as child pornography and therefore illegal. But the "ecchi" form of lolicon is hard to pinpoint...I once knew a woman around my age who was hugely influenced by Hideo Azuma's artwork, so one might think she was a lolicon, but she didn't intend anything sexual with a lot of her art. She just happened to watch some of his anime during her formative years.

It is significant, then, whether the artist intends to cause sexual titillation through their art?

Yeah. There's a very big, but very subtle, difference between moe and lolicon. I stopped my article right before the genesis of moe because that's its own whole thing...moe style characters are meant to provoke platonic desires to protect a character (much like the OG Clarisse) while lolicon characters are meant to turn someone on.
(I mention moe suddenly because it's really a branch of lolicon-inspired artwork, but almost always without the sexual undertones)

The most common argument against positions like yours is that, while child pornography always and necessarily involves harm being done to a child in order to produce it, lolicon art does not require harming a real child in order to make it. I am sure you've heard this argument before, so how do you respond to it?

I think lolicon art is still dangerous because of the feelings it provokes in its consumers. You never know if it'll lead to the consumer ogling real children in their daily life, or worst case scenario, lead to them turning to real life CP.
And lolicon may not be looking at real children, but they are still imagining a child around them and/or in suggestive situations.

from Rose's webcomic Vanilla Mizrahi

Ever since releasing your Castle of Doom article, the most visible responses to it have mostly focused on your position on lolicon. Are you satisfied with the reception your writing has received?

Yeah. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback, with some people thanking me for laying out the phenomenon's timeline so succinctly. There's been a very small handful of people giving me hell for my stance, but they don't really bother me. I'd rather get flack for hating a form of pedophilia over ever sympathizing with it.
Plus, some of that handful of people just respond to me with one of those "Take it easy, it's just a drawing" image macros, which barely counts as a response lol


Do you expect this to be the end of your investigations of the lolicon phenomenon? Alternately, can we expect that a follow-up to Castle of Doom will someday be released?

I really hope it'll be the end, at least for a while. I'm considering going in for a deep dive about the history of moe, since I have some leads on where the term originated. But for now I've got other topics planned.
The one coming soonest is going to be about a different character worship phenomenon: the 2012 Onceler fandom. I was a bystander while it all happened, but it's such a significant part of western fandom culture that I would love to write about it.

I'd also love to know about your fansubbing plans- after Chikkun Takkun and your announced projects with Incense Idol Subs, do you expect you will continue contributing to fansub projects? And looking even further into the future, do you have any translating-related professional aspirations?

I may be helping Shiteater Subs out with future Dr. Slump episodes...I got commissioned to do episode 99, so look out for that. Once CT is finished, I've been considering working on Bug tte Honey, an adventure anime that looks like a bit of a mix of Tezuka and Toriyama. It also stars the cartoon version of Takahashi Meijin!
I would really love to be able to do this professionally. I feel like it'd be the coolest thing ever to work for an anime licensor, and get to put out translations for a home video release or something. I'd also love to become an English teacher in Japan.

If someone wants to get to know your perspective as an artist and an anime fan better, what are 3 pieces of your work that you would recommend?

I'd say those would be (1.) Chikkun Takkun, my current passion project - in spite of its grimier bits, it's a real hidden gem and I've put a lot of love into it, (2.) the Canadian Astro Boy dub, the hardest lost media search I've been on but an important piece of early western dubbing, and (3.) my webcomic Vanilla Mizrahi, if they want to know more about me as a individual and my life.

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Any questions or complaints re. the interview can be directed to my Twitter account. Please do not harass or otherwise instigate toxicity against anyone I mention in my articles. Thank you for reading!